358 norma magnum vs 35 whelen

Compare practically any small bore cartridge (.32 caliber or less) with a .35 caliber cartridge of similar powder capacity and the result is pretty much the same. Follow along to see exactly how. i have a 35 whelen and love it. With the best loads, my Remington Model 700 is one-hole accurate. By and large, we shooters seem to gravitate to the middle of the road; to bland, yet predictable, mediocrity. Elk bullets must be tough enough to provide adequate penetration. That load has a maximum optimal range on 1000 pound game (like a big Alaskan moose or brown bear) of 151 yards. Contributor Brad Fenson takes to the grill, to cook up some delicious venison burgers. The .358 Norma established its reputation in high-end hunting rifles like this Schultz & Larsen Model 65DL. The numerous magnum .30s are also excellent, but they deliver more recoil. 358 norma mag is a rarer bird but as I understand fire forming 300 win mag. and is probably a better deer and black bear cartridge at woods ranges than the more popular .30-30 Win. There is certainly no lack of .358-inch diameter bullets to choose from but brass is limited. Synthetic stocks arent always lighter than wood, but they are stronger and more stable, and elk hunting can be hard on rifles. The Remington Model 673 Guide Rifle was chambered in .350 Rem. That load actually produced 2825 f.p.s. My .375 H&H seemed quite adequate. Can Coolers | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Find More Great NRA Publications Perfect For Every Interest, Discover Everything That The NRA Has To Offer. Since then, I have often recommended medium bores, such as Elmer Keiths favorite .33s, and Ive used the 8mm Remington Magnum a lot. No matter if its books, art or hunting cartridges, its only those with a deep understanding of the subject who can fully understand the greatness often buried in obscurity. Ruger made a few bolt-actions some years back, and Remington made rifles in the 700 Classic line, but they are long gone. Kynoch was a big producer of .350 ammo, but that has ceased in the recent past. Most Professional Hunters agree that a bullet with a S.D. The .358 Norma can be loaded down to duplicate the performance of either of the two smaller cartridges. The .35 Whelen is accurate, hits hard, penetrates deep, shoots flat and recoils mildly. in an 8.5 pound rifle, is comparable to the much more popular but less effective (on CXP3 class game) .300 Weatherby or .300 Remington Ultra Magnums. The hunter from afar, journeying into unfamiliar country, must also accept the pressure of a limited period of time and the knowledge that it may come down to just one chance. Here in North America, you could take the .350 Rigby anywhere youd take the .35 Whelen or .358 Norma Magnum, and that includes north to Alaska for the great bears. The "U.S. Rifle, Caliber .30, Model of 1903," better-known as the M1903 Springfield, has become one of the most popular U.S. military small arms to collect. Norma loads their 250-grain Oryx bullet to this velocity, and as the rear portion of the bullet is bonded, it will give an excellent blend of expansion and penetration. Movement is more random in big country. PerH AH fanatic Joined May 8, 2021 Messages 536 Reaction score 813 Location Norway Articles 2 Jun 4, 2021 #5 With its spitzer-pointed bullets, the .358 is a good medium- to long-range cartridge with capabilities out to 250 yards on big game. In 1987 Remington made an honest cartridge out of the .35 Whelen. So are the .350 Remington Magnum and .358 Norma Magnum. [quote=encorerbHmmm, makes me wonder. I rely on Roberson Cartridge Company out of Texas for projects like these, and their .350 Rigby brass is wonderfully uniform and properly headstamped. I've owned several Magnum Mediums338 RUM, 340WBY, 375 H&H, 375 WBY, 358NM, 338WM. Alas, to the best of my knowledge, its not imported to the U.S. Winchester introduced its initial trio of belted magnums in the mid-1950sthe .458 Winchester Magnum, .338 Winchester Magnum and .264 Winchester Magnumand all were designed for the long-action receiver, using a case length equal or similar to the .30-06 Springfield. loaded with a 180-grain Oryx bullet to the .358 Norma Mag. An earlier Western Cartridge load delivered 2,660 fps, which I suspect is closer to the truth. R Rocky On those gray, moody November days when I am feeling blue I take my Remington Model 141 pump-action rifle in .35 Rem. Theres more to success than merely landing a good one on the chin. It will work in this action with ease and will be plenty cheap to feed and use if one simply sizes up 338 brass and goes along thier happy way. Rifle Recoil Table. The .25 Rem., .30 Rem. One can almost hear the echoes of Norma Mag. If we compare the .300 Win. So if you have a .375 (or larger) and a yen to take it elk hunting, be my guest. Id mate it with a good 180-grain bullet, top it with a one-inch-tube scope (to save weight), and go elk hunting. None of this can be said for either the .338 Winchester Magnum or the .375 H&H. Not necessarily top dollar everything. Ill bet its been awhile since those cartridges have been seen in a hunting camp. The writings of Robert Ruark certainly helped the reputation of the cartridge and the company, as Ruark put his young PH Harry Selby and the .416 Rigby rifle he carried on a pedestal. I say that because so many reasonably successful yet hard kicking cartridges have been introduced in the last few years. I am convinced there are better tools, and theres also that matter of mindset. These work, but my thinking has changed over the years. That load actually produced 2825 f.p.s. was simply a .308 Win. Tried and true. Kevin Steele from Petersen's HUNTING speaks to Jordan Egli of Burris Optics about the all-new Veracity PH Riflescope. Heres a detailed look at each step of the process. That being said, with much wider availability, and the higher . That 225-grain bullet has a sectional density (SD) value of 0.251, a bit light for what is normally considered to be appropriate for dangerous game. There are specialized situations where close shots are the norm, but most often, the ideal elk rifle should have enough versatility for shots out to 300 yards and change. Heres a detailed look at each step of the process. Honestly, Ive taken as many elk with the .30-06 as with any other cartridge, and the farthest at 350 yards was no problem. From limited experience of loading for two different 358 Norma Magnum rifles (a Schultz & Larson Model 65 and a Custom Sako AV) I used to neck up new Winchester 338 Win. .50 BMG. was included in that party is a mystery, as it had no Winchester counterpart. This is basically a deer and black bear (CXP2 class game) cartridge, although it is reputed to be superior to cartridges in the .30-30 class for game weighing over about 400 pounds. The Swedish firm of A.B. Any of these will handle just about any big game one might hunt with a .358 Norma, where you want to employ its ample knockdown power. I would also expect it to handle anything in North America from deer to the big bears. Spl. During the spring conservation order, you can hunt with outfitters from Arkansas to Saskatchewan. This wonderful efficiency of the .35 calibers is especially remarkable when one considers that most all of these rounds are verging on obsolescence today. It can be the ballistic equivalent of the .30-06 with a 180-grain bullet or, pushed the other way, it can easily match the velocity of the .300 Weatherby Magnum with the same weight bullet. .500 Nitro Express. I have one, and I like it a lot. I rely on, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. 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The .358 Norma Magnum, like the .358 Shooting Times Alaskan, generates a considerable amount of energy, but due to the caliber restrictions for dangerous game of most of the African countries, it falls shy of the markthe .375-inch bore is minimum for many countries. Meanwhile, the .358 Norma fizzled, for lack of a better term, because rifles were not readily available, ammunition was expensive and hard to get, and it found itself in direct competition with one of the great American cartridges of the twentieth century, Winchesters .338 Magnum. with a similar 180-grain bullet. The .35 Whelen is a fine elk cartridge. It can work in close or at a distance or dazzle you with footwork. the problem in this debate is we are crossing over in calibres, which means thrust on different sized pistons. factory load is a 250-grain Oryx bullet listed with a muzzle velocity of 2723 f.p.s. The Newton was supposedly loaded, by Western Cartridge, to 2,975 fps with a 250-grain bullet, but I, for one, would want to see the chronograph reading. Shaw rifles 24-inch barrel. I bought it as a moose rifle but never got drawn in ten years. has been offered in just about every rifle action type ever conceived and a few handguns. Think of the .358 Norma Magnum as the chunky cousin of the .338 Winchester Magnum; not quite as svelte or popular, but equally effective in a fight. From left: (1) .35 Remington, (2) .358 Winchester and (3) .358 Norma Magnum. At 300 yds., the .358 Norma impacts only 0.96" lower than the .300 Win. Don't like Rugers much had my fill of them and now they are gone down the road. There is only .007-inch (seven thousandths) difference between the .270s .277-inch bullet and the 7mms .284-inch bullet. But perhaps youre not after thick-skinned dangerous game. He, too, could have been one of the greats. G. Joined: Sep 2009. Sadly, I cant find a single major gunmaker chambering this cartridge today. The .308 Winchester is a fine elk cartridge, and the grand old .30-06, with a bit more velocity and energy, is better. As many hunters know, the Remington Model 600 carbine, which was introduced in 1964, was one of the first short, light, bolt-action rifles to find success with deer hunters. Heres how to avoid the poseurs and choose the right one. Shorter and more common than the magnum-length receiver needed for the .375 and .300 Holland & Holland Magnum, the Winchester Model 70s and Remington Model 721s gave a new level of performance when chambered for the new magnums. Copyright 2000-2023 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved. and a 250-grain Partition load with a muzzle velocity of 2550 f.p.s. The 338/06 when compared to the .35 Whelen only beats it with the lighter bullets and not by much. all were more powerful-and may have been excellent hunting cartridges-but they are gone; rejected by the shooting public and banished to the junk heap of obsolescence. This was not the factory bullet from the 1960s, with its mild-steel jacket, but a later one. Kali Parmley, Editor-in-chief of Bakccountry Hunter speaks with Bret Maffet of Franchi Firearms to discuss the all new Momentum All Terrain Elite. It, as you know, can be loadeddown to be a 35 Whelen but the reverse is not true. Loved by gun guys and rejected by the huddled masses, this is perhaps the most underappreciated cartridge of them all. Heres how to avoid the poseurs and choose the right one. Today the .35 caliber family, at least in North America, includes the .357 Magnum, .35 Remington, .356 Winchester, .358 Winchester, .35 Whelen, .350 Remington Magnum and .358 Norma Magnum. The 250-grain .358-inch bulletwith a sectional density of 0.279if properly constructed, has enough length to handle the brown bear and bison, and all of the African plains game species, plus lion and leopard. Wolfe Publishing Company | 2180 Gulfstream Suite A | Prescott, AZ 86301. Hornady has a Superformance load with a 200-grain SP at 2910 f.p.s. The .358 Norma Mag. Today we have better bullets than when I was a kid. The .35 (.358) caliber has never really gotten a serious toehold here, although the occasional item like the .35 Whelen, .350 Remington Magnum, or .358 Winchester roils the waters every now and again. exlcusive user. Kali Parmley of Gun Dog Magazine talks to George Thompson from Benelli USA about the new features from the Benelli line in 2023. Bottles & 12-oz. Thinking of a medium bore with a bit of thump.9.3 x 62 holds some exotic mystique for me being its use on African large game but I am thinking realistically .366 cant be that much of an advantage over .358 can it? Particularly when you consider that every one of those newer short magnum cartridges burns more powder to achieve less killing power than the .350 Rem. Both calibers share the same dimensions of the case head as the .300 H&H Magnum, but have far less body taper, resulting in the same internal capacity in a shorter case. The .35-caliber cartridges usually top out at 250 grains, though if a 300-grain bullet at a slightly faster twist rate were employed, it would certainly be in the same class as the .375 Holland & Holland. Mag. The .35 Whelen is a powerful medium-bore rifle cartridge that does not require a magnum action or a magnum bolt-face. For the next year, comparisons were inevitable between Johanssons Hammer of Thor and the .358s powerful 250-grain bullet. Does the power of the magnum offer much over the whelen in real life terms? Your rifle is your most important hunting tool, and knowing how to properly clean and store it when hunting season comes to a close is critical in keeping it in tip-top shape. Perhaps thats why it has survived. As it was released in the first century of the . In both cartridges, versatility is limited more by the narrow range of bullets available than by any other factor. Like most of the children of the Holland & Holland parents, the .358 Norma uses its shoulder for headspacing, rather than the belt, as do the .375 and .300 H&H. Normas original spec sheet for the .358 Norma Magnum when it was released in 1959 indicated the cartridges ballistics. On June 26, 1959, Sweden's Ingemar Johansson demolished Floyd Patterson in the third round of their first heavyweight title fight in New York. Choose at least medium weight for caliber: 140 grains in 6.5mm and the lighter 7mms; 140 and 150 grains in .270s; 150 to 160 grains in faster 7mms; 165 or 180 grains in .30 calibers. But when Winchester chambered the .358 the following year in its unique lever-action, the Model 88, it became a really interesting cartridge. Most were intended for .38-caliber handguns, but any bullet made for either the .38 Special or .357 Magnum can be loaded and shot in the .358 Norma Magnum with varying degrees of success. Even the obscure .358 Norma Magnum is the most efficient of the belted-magnum cartridges [note - by the author's own data the 350 Remington Magnum bests the 358 Norma]. Heres a look at 10 of the most flexible long-range hunting cartridges. But starting in the late 1950s, the .338 bore size gained considerable tractionthanks to the emergence of the .338 Winchester Magnum. SAUM and .300 WSM, with their 180 grain bullets at a MV of 2960-2970 fps, have an optimum range of about 120 yards on 1000 pound animals. Synthetic wins over laminate because laminates, strongest of all, are also heaviest. ), but with considerably less recoil. Somehow, years ago, I got the notion that it is not prudent to be opening the bolt face of a 700 from standard (270W) to magnum (358N). As well, most bullet manufacturers produce soft, 200-grain roundnosed bullets intended for the .35 Remington, and these fit a wide range of uses. The softpoints were used for the various antelope species, dangerous cats and even buffalo, while the full-patch, non-expanding solids would be used on elephant. I have one, of course, and it is fun to shoot, but I would never use it on a serious big-game hunt. Opening up a boltface on a standard action is NOT a difficult job for a decent gunsmith and does not affect the strength or viability of the action one WHIT. The .358 is vastly underated as the Whelen. Head to the range this week with American Rifleman staff as they discuss a trim little repeater from Savage Arms that comes chambered for the .22 WMR cartridge. Of the bullets used, several performed extremely well, including the Bear Claw and a Nosler 250-grain Partition. I own several rifles in this cartridge and all my .35 Whelen rifles are accurate. Winchester still offers ammunition, but the guns are history. I have built all 3 several times for various customers and owned both the 358 Norma and the 9.3X62. In an age of ultra-specializatio in every field, and especially rifles, such versatility is almost an anachronism. Moving down a notch and comparing the .35 Whelen (250 grain bullet at a MV of 2400 fps) to the .30-06 (220 grains at 2410 fps), which have nearly identical case capacity, we find that the optimum game range (OGW) on 1000 pound animals is 10 yards for the .30-06 and 100 yards for the .35 Whelen. With such a variety of bullets, you would think the skys the limit in terms of different loads, but there are other factors to consider. That year, Remington also brought out the Model 673 Guide Gun in .350 Rem Mag. 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. The Norma factory load, with Normas own 250-grain bullet, performed poorly, coming apart in the chest cavity. Although such weight is rare, a big bull can exceed 1,000 pounds. In addition, for stopping the big predators of the world, it's hard to beat a suitable .35 caliber rifle. There are several reasons. Any desire to hunt African dangerous game with your medium bore? Publisher, Kevin Steele is with Brett Marquardt from Streamlight Inc. discussing the new Streamlight Pro Tac 2.0, the latest edition in the Pro Tac series. X-Vision Optics long-range ImpactThermal Scope (TS300) boasts a 640 x 480 thermal sensor that can detect big game well past 3,000 yards. Maybe I'll just get a 375 H+H instead of going the Norma route. in an 8.5 pound rifle, is comparable to the much more popular but less effective (on CXP3 class game) .300 Weatherby or .300 Remington Ultra Magnums. .358 Norma brass is a snap to make from 338 Win Mag brass. This means you have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones and tablets. But have owned multiple 9.3s and Whelens. Its safe to say that of all the .358 Norma Magnum rifles in existence, there are more custom than factory ones, and this makes it tricky to load for in another way. I was used to the 30-06 parent cases (.270, 25-06, etc) so that is what I decided on. Barnes has a Vor-TX load with a 180-grain TSX bullet and a muzzle velocity of 2900 f.p.s. The case capacity of the .350 Rigby is very similar to that of the .358 Norma Magnum, and the performance is likewise similar. You know the kind with the locking bolt. bruce. Most rifle elk hunting is not like bowhunting during the bugling season. This raises the obvious question: Why, with so many modern cartridges around of more or less equal power, chambered in readily available rifles, is there this lingering interest in, and loyalty to, the .358 Norma? Kevin Steele, Publisher of Petersen's HUNTING talks with JJ Reich of HEVI-Shot about the new offerings for 2023. in the Big Bore Model 94. Kevin Steele stops by the Taurus booth to speak with Cody Osborn about the all new Raging Hunter platform from Taurus International. I would never argue that a .243 Winchester with a good bullet placed well, or certainly a .25-06 with a tough, heavy bullet, cant do the job. So while some of my rifle choices may have been oddball, none of the rifles Ive used for elk have been exactly wrong. The .35 Whelen has a relatively simple design: it's a .30-06 Springfield case necked up to use .358 instead of .308 bullets (the exact opposite of the .270 Winchester in other words). with a 250-grain Oryx bullet-both with a 200-yd. of muzzle energy. The barrel is a full 22 inches, like it always should have been, but the foolish design with the huge shark fin front sight turned hunters off, and it was dropped. Im voting no. is still not burning up the sales records, so maybe ahead of its time is the wrong description. The 6.5mm Creedmoor and the old 6.5x55 are sound minimal choices, adequate to 300 yards. was initially chambered in Remingtons Model 8 autoloader, soon followed by the Model 14 pump-action. We argue cartridges and calibers endlessly, but bullet choice matters. Essentially the .338 Winchester Magnum necked up to hold .358-inch bullets, the .358 Norma Magnum made all sorts of sense to a hunter in pursuit of large game, such as elk, moose and the great bears of the north. As it stands, it is most certainly on the edge of becoming obsolete. The Whelen is a more sensible choice, but the Rigby isnt about sensibility, its about nostalgia and a connection to a bygone age. And, as any fan of the .35-caliber cartridges knows, there are quite a few bullet weights to choose from within the caliber.

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